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Antonski 27 April 2008 02:42 pm

Difference between codec and container
Technically speaking, the new sv8 is actually a container format with all these features as seeking, chapters, metadata etc., correct?
However, the codec is the same (v1.16 ?), isn't it?
Well, since sv8 is developed to contain only a musepack stream, should we distinguish between codec and container, after all?

Shy 27 April 2008 07:19 pm

SV8 is not a container format. It's a new version of the entire format which adds features like container independence, proper streaming and cutting, chapters, and takes care of extendibility. The codec is 1.16 but with internal clipping eliminated. Seeking is instant regardless of file length. File size is 2% smaller due to improved bitsream compression.

SV8 ".mpc" files are now Musepack streams within an mpc container. The simple mpc container format is designed specifically for Musepack audio streams. It's not mandatory to use it. Encoding to raw streams to be embedded in other containers is possible. The mpc container is directly controlled by us and thus guaranteed to have fully working support of the format at all times. Third-party containers supporting the format will most likely work just fine, but since we have no control of them we can't guarantee support to be in order at all times. That's a main reason for maintaining a container of our own.

So there's not much to distinguish :), mpc files are still always Musepack audio files. An mkv file with a Musepack audio stream would be a Matroska video file with Musepack audio, not codec (there's no coder or decoder there, just a Musepack audio stream). I understand the confusion though, "codec" is a widely abused term.

xmixahlx 28 April 2008 07:08 am

being nitpicky, sv8 would be an improved bitstream (changed) and optionally in a new (introduced) container.

the only quality changes to sv8 were removing limitations of the bitstream. sv8 > sv7.

and doesn't codec refer to a stream? so a "matroska video file" doesn't exist, it would be a "matroska container file" with xvid mpeg4 video and musepack sv8 audio. ?

also, pretty much all third party support i've heard of comes directly from the MDT support libs, so i don't think that is a worry.

anyways, just rambling...

Shy 28 April 2008 01:28 pm

Yeah but mkv means matroska video, mka means matroska audio. So to be more accurate, a matroska video file (doesn't mean the video stream itself is of "matroska" format, it can be any supported format) with an mpeg-4 asp video stream and musepack audio stream. "Codec" doesn't refer to stream, it only refers to coder/decoder software or hardware that's used to encode or decode the stream. It's just a widely abused term, so people often wrongly refer to audio and video formats or streams as "codecs".

It's true that support of the format would be via the Musepack libraries usually (but that doesn't necessarily mean latest libraries) and that a chance of something breaking is very slim, but something is bound to break (and things do break) when a container format that supports lots of stuff has to be regularly updated.

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