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guruboolez 07 August 2004 11:49 am

About uploaded samples
Could a simple user upload interesting samples?
There's a "login" in the section, but it seems to be different from the forum account.

Seed 07 August 2004 11:53 am

Ganymed is about to post an explanation of how the test sample page works and what options each user has when submitting new samples. Anyway, yes, the password is different. To allow users of other codecs to register there, but not necessarily on this forum.

I intend to start a listening test involving 2 SV7 encoders, 1.95z6, 1.95z67, and possibly Wavpack lossy. I will submit the sample to the forum first, and if any of us finds problems, it'll reach the samples page too.

Ganymed 07 August 2004 01:52 pm

I've just set up a small FAQ on the samples database.

You can and you're invited to submit new samples. The samples can either be hosted on your server, or be uploaded to our server after submitting the samples information.

After you've submitted a new sample, you can still change the information you've provided.

Best regards,
~ Florian

guruboolez 07 August 2004 02:24 pm

Only FLAC and no more than 2 MB?
Wouldn't it better to allow a stronger encoder (flac is, with shorten, the worse for this usage), also playable on Linux (OptimFROG), or with open souce code (Monkey's Audio -insane)?
Monkey's Audio sounds logical for me... afterall, mppenc -quality 11 calls MAC.EXE ;)

@muse 07 August 2004 03:37 pm



samples should be under 30 seconds.
would that limit of 30s. bee related to copyright,
what about own samples. Computer generated or music you
have the Artist(`s) permission.
Or is the 30s. or 2Mb. the limit for each on your server.


Seed 07 August 2004 04:00 pm

I hope everyone is fine with FLAC. I have most of mine as FLAC and I'd be
glad to submit them if they are needed. Frank also requested a format
that works on all OSs.

30 seconds is regarded (but not officially) as the maximum allowed length
for copyrighted material. If the sample is from your own created music,
and you'd rather waive the copyrights, that rule does not apply, but please
keep in mind that the site has a limited capacity for samples and that the 2
MB per file limit is required so that the admins are able to control the
traffic. As stated by several people in the past, they'd be more than glad
to contribute more space for mirror sites, and I can contribute one too, if
it's really needed.

guruboolez 07 August 2004 07:24 pm

Problem is not related to the musical length: 30 sec is clearly enough to isolate an artifact in good conditions. But with 2 megs only, there's sometimes a good difference in the total duration between a herculean lossless format and a lighter one than flac. In my opinion, it makes sense to use the strongest compression mode possible for internet distribution: bandwith sparing, time sparing (some people like Frank Klemm are still living with 56K ;))...
Some people like me could provide a very limited amount of webspace, and that's why I prefer the strongest lossless/multi-OS format available: it makes things easier.

Flac was maybe two years ago the only lossless format working on Linux (I don't know), but nowadays, there are more audio formats working on other system than Windows. There's WavPack, OptimFROG, Monkey's Audio... and all are offering better compression than flac.

EXEMPLE: 18 samples from Roberto's last test:



Bartok_strings2 750 653 668

chanchan 905 864 878

Debussy 402 347 368

female_speech 480 397 458

getiton 758 696 706

Hongroise 575 463 472

kraftwerk 655 604 618

Leahy 1041 997 1003

male_speech 510 408 463

Mama 942 888 902

NewYorkCity 1104 1071 1077

OrdinaryWorld 954 885 888

rosemary 786 734 742

SinceAlways 1002 920 928

TomsDiner 757 628 655

trust 866 823 831

Twelve 1017 960 970

Waiting 953 865 878


TOTAL SIZE 46012966 42205288 43037796

AV. BITRATE 807 739 754

- OptimFROG encoding are ~10% smaller than flac
- on 56K, the full downloading need ~12 additionnal minutes with flac compared to Frog
- two samples (Bartok & Hongroise are > 2.00 MB with flac but are OK with MAC and Frog.

I don't want to start any flame war between lossless encoders, but it seems logical to me to give the favour to a something more economical.
Last but not least, according to Frank Klemm website:


support of directly reading OptimFROG lossless by optimfrog compressed PCM files (works under Linux and Windows)
support of directly reading FLAC lossless compressed PCM files (works under Linux; Windows-FLAC do not work)
Aparently, FROG is more friendly with musepack than flac ;)

Lefungus 07 August 2004 07:59 pm

The objective is to have an unified samples database. I don't have any opinion about other lossless codecs. But i know Flac is decoded under Win32 / *NIX / Mac OS X / *BSD. So i guess sticking to it is the 'safe' choice.
Now maybe the size could be increased a bit, but i know some will complain after about bandwith :)

Seed 08 August 2004 06:30 am

OK, this is moving to the off-topic realm, so we better make decisions:

1. I use the monkey myself, but since FLAC has been hugely popular over at HA (the latest poll), I'd rather go with it too. It'll make life easier for those who wish to submit samples, since it's more of a familiar codec.

I'll create a poll, the results of which will not dictate to Ganymed which codec to use, but if enough users support guru's opinion, Ganymed and I will seriously consider switching to another format. Vote to show us what you want. Since HA users are very much involved with this, and the database is not only for MPC users, I suggest that one of you duplicates the poll on HA, so that many more have the chance to vote.

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