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Old 30 June 2006, 12:27 pm   #11
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: in the great wide open
Posts: 11

soundsexpert test:


results dated from 2006-06-29


aac he CBR@131.6 (Winamp 5.21) 6.19 (≈1%)

aac CBR@132.3 (Winamp 5.21) 5.71 (≈3%)

aac VBR@128.0 (NeroRef 0506) 5.38 (≈5%)

mpc VBR@128.4 (1.15v) 5.37 (≈1%)

ogg VBR@129.9 (OggEnc 2.8) 5.27 (≈1%)

aac VBR@134.5 (iTunes 6.0) 5.15 (≈2%)

mp3 VBR@112.7 (Lame 3.97b2) 4.55 (≈3%)

ATRAC3 CBR@135.4 (LP2) 3.73 (≈0%)

mp3 CBR@127.9 (Shine) 2.07 (≈1%)

Though the test-method of soundsexperts can be questioned, the results show a tendency.
mp3 shine cbr the worst, atrac bad, mp3-lame vbr a step better, then the modern formats in several variations at the top, including MPC and its competitors aac/ogg.

So, yes MPC at quality 4 and better is still very competitable with all the other modern HA-hyped formats...

some answers and corrections:

- Why is hybrid encoding stupid ? - It saves time and Wavpack has some HW support.

well, hybrid being stupid is probbaly exaggerating from ximaxx personal point of view.
Now my personal opionion:
I need Lossless and lossy, I encode to both.
How do I solve it practical ?!
I tried Wavpack lossy,
and I find this alternative a great solution, but:
- too few hardware support, especially for the lossy wavpack ?
- I encode these days via mareo.exe to 3 formats at different bitrates/qualities:
1. Lossless Flac or Wavpack, atm preferring Flac due to hardware support
2. MPC at --quality 7 - 8 --ms 15 --xlevel for use on laptop AND cheap/small-sized archival backup of the Lossless on different media,
3. Mp3/Lame -V5 vbr-new at 130k for daily usage music, for usb-stick 1 GB in car-radio and via heardphones Koss KSC75 for sports running aoutdoors.

options 1. and 2. fulfill HiFi requiements/quality.
because of the security/backup requirement, a combined Wavpack hybrid Lossless/lossy is out of question ! 1 file away, it isn#t Lossless anymore.
And MPC reaches transparency at clear lower bitrates than wavpack lossy.

forlorn and others admit, they aren#t even able to distinct lossy at 128k vbr from eahc other or Lossless. Well, I go towards 40 and it isn#t still a prob for me.
Opposite to recent HA majority opions, hardware/HiFi equuipment plays a role, it is a difference if you listen via headphones or via good speakers etc etc. And it is a difference, how your ears are. Damaged by live concerts at high volumes ?
Please wear plugs to protect yourself in concerts...

I have been watching the lossy & lossless scene before the birth of HA, since r3mix times, and have sadly recognized, that the lossy scene is dominated nowadays by zealots, especially at HA, refusing to test the new publically untested 1.15v in their ususal 128k tests etc.
Just as modern formats get tuned to bearable results at low bitrates, the developers wars are carried out between 32k to 80k !! nowadays.
All above is out of focus and uninteresting for paid developers.
You haver to listen to your music on cell phones..
and you have to pay for your lossy 64k phone music,
if you don#t do, and listen HiFi/free mpc , you are a non-conformist! maybe a terrorist or a revolutionay or revenge/backwards old fashioned guy !
So they tell you, to get your wooden home under the green floor, to not to disturb the crowds in their 128k = transparent/overkill dream!


the "portable hardware" argument:

as you see, i encode to 130k mp3 lame for protable.
Because this format is palyable in every device, that si true portability !
Ogg, aac are at same low portability scale as mpc.
MPC can play since years/months on phones & PDA/navigational mini computers with that certain player,
Rockbox, eg. MPC on ipod
But: all those special players, including aac/ogg players are to rare still at the moment, and too expensive.
as you need a good brand player.
Compare to the variety of mp3 portables:
those are sold by non-known brands also, very cheapo!
and since usb sticks, the only portable are those mini sticks (for me), all other solutions have too amyn disadvantages.
and USB stick sized:
only mp3 (and crap-wma..)

at the begin of mp3, I knew people, who built in PC to car, to play mp3 from hd !
already years ago.
Still a good solution for cars, and then MPC rulez!
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