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Old 07 February 2006, 04:12 pm   #1
Dirkvl
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Default Further development

I would like to ask if musepack is still being developed.
Haven't seen any changes to the format for quite some time now.
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Old 07 February 2006, 06:17 pm   #2
xmixahlx
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atm, the format is being maintained through bugfixes only (by the MDT).

it appears that the format future (SV 7.5, 8.0) can only happen if one of a few select people put a serious interest in the codec (i.e. klemm, buschmann, etc)


later

[edit: damn auto smileys]
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Old 07 February 2006, 07:16 pm   #3
Shy
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To anyone who asks if Musepack is still being developed, I have several points to present:

1. Have you missed the last 4 encoder releases (3 from last year, 1 from 2004), which fix some quite important issues?

2. Have you missed the continuous updates to libmpcdec, the portable Musepack decoder library which has enabled Musepack support in various applications on various platforms?

3. Musepack's sound quality/psychoacoutics related code is very advanced and therefore very few people can handle it. The former main developer is busy with other (not audio codec related, but frightningly advanced and demanding) projects.
The situation is not much different with other modern audio and video codecs. Pretty much all open source codec projects, including us, are in need of capable developers.

4. Personally, I've grown tired of comparisons related to "who has the most development?" The most obvious example is Musepack VS Vorbis. Most people may not even know that the last quality related developments Vorbis has had occured in 2001-2002 (excluding unsupported 3rd party modifications, or hacks). Monty, the main developer, hasn't published anything in that field since then. The focus has been on cleaning up code, fixing bugs, improving speed, etc. There is constant development, and exactly the same applies to Musepack. Code cleanups, bug fixes, optimization, only the last quality related optimizations occured in 2003. But that doesn't stop people from spreading ridiculous statements of "lack of development" or the "death" of the project, which hasn't been more alive in years.

5. We know several people (not only Klemm or Buschmann) who are capable of furthering SV7.5 development, but unfortunately everyone we know is busy with another project that takes pretty much all of his time. We've said on various occasions that we'd appreciate any assistance we could get regarding the development of the bitstream, which is the foremost thing on our to-do list.

To summarize: The "format," as in, the bitstream, hasn't had changes. Changes are planned but more developers are needed. The encoder will keep being updated as it has been 3 times last year whenever we find an issue. The decoder library is constantly under development and that is a main reason you can see Musepack being supported pretty much anywhere nowadays, be it by Rockbox on iRiver or iPod portable players, TCPMP on mobile phones, numerous players on Windows and Linux/UNIX/BSD systems, and other platforms.
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Old 08 February 2006, 08:40 am   #4
Dirkvl
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Shy, I would like to thank you for a clear status of the project.
Indeed, I missed the last 4 encoder releases.
The reason why I did so, is that I always looked at the encoder version, stating 1.15v, instead of looking at the release date.
Maybe they should change the version number, when a new compile is released ?
This would certainly attract attention and demonstrate further development.
You were referring to the vorbis project as a reference.
What the vorbis development shows, is a regular addition of version digits (something like 1.0->1.1->1.1.1->1.1.2)
The next release could be something like 1.1.2.1.0.1.1 ...
I don't know if that is the fashion these days, but it's a visible counter that attracts attention.
I'm sorry to hear you've grown tired of certain comparisons, because that's what development is all about : achieving a better result in comparison to others.
I hope you will continue your good work at the musepack site and never grow tired of that
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Old 08 February 2006, 09:02 am   #5
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No need to worry about that . I meant I've grown somewhat tired of uninformed comparisons made by mostly clueless people who themselves don't know what they're asking. We always welcome helpful comparisons.

The reason the version hasn't been changed from 1.15(letter) yet is that we hadn't reached complete certainty that it's as stable as we'd like. Our hesitancy to change the number proved to be founded, as each time we had found something new to fix. However, now that it's been a while, the next version may indeed have a number change.
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